Category: Let's talk
So its that time of year again, the time when we will all be receiving gifts from
our long lost aunts and uncles and that cousin we forget we had in Nebraska.
Now, common courtesy requires that one respond to these gifts with a thank
you card. Common courtesy further inconveniences the lazy and ungrateful
among us by requiring that these cards be written on stationary of a relatively
quality construction, and in pen by hand. It means more that way.
But, we few, we blindy few, cannot, I imagine, wield a pen with such dexterity
as to legibly scribble, "dear forgotten cousin Basil. Your gifts of the 24 carat
solid gold nine horse power butt plug was mind-bogglingly odd, but shiny.
You're weird, please lose my address." I know that I can't write that well by
hand anyway.
Now, I realize that I could simply log into my email and send off some
electronic form of thank you, but that seems thoughtless and bottom of the
barrel. I could also print out my thank you on basic printer paper, but that
seems to be barely cutting the air above the bottom of the barrel. So, what are
your thoughts. How can we, us polite and courteous blind people, send
heartfelt, quality, beautiful thank you notes to our forgotten cousin basil in
Nebraska?
It is my opinion, at least, that these days, printing a thank-you card on high-grade paper is highly overrated by most. In my experience at least, thanking someone in person (if they see you) or by email or telephone (if they can't see you) is usually enough. For family who do something like this, I will almost always call them if that's feasible, and deliver my thanks voice to voice; this is, incidentally, what I prefer, myself. Maybe that influences my stance, because I don't care about lovely thank-you cards.
But honestly, it's the gesture that counts. A lot of people are going to think "Okay, he's reached out and said his thanks, doesn't matter how he did it", and that will be enough. Truth be told, most people in my own circle of acquaintances don't hold tons of stock in the high-quality thank-you note anymore, if they ever did, so this likely won't even be a case of "he's blind, he can't help it, so I'll try not to be offended".
I dunno. Maybe you have friends and family who are generally more up-tight about this sort of thing than the people I know. Maybe it's an American thing, or a southern thing. But to me at least, this is not at all a big deal. Thank them in the most personal way you can manage (obviously don't send a stock thank-you form letter to everyone) and call it good.
Its not so much people requesting them, but me holding myself to that
standard. Manners are not what others expect, but what you expect of yourself
in regards to others.
Depends on each person's abilities and desires.
If you can sign your own name, I think a set of thank you cards would suffice nicely and if you are so inclined, print out a short note with the particulars.
A short note in Braille with one of those Braille alphabet cards would also do. That is a lot more convenient than finding someone to read a handwritten note for those of us who can't see well enough to read and heaven knows, hand writing in particular is hard to read with vision problems.
I don't discount the notion of actual notes and handwriting. On a visit to my family a couple of months ago, I left a very small item behind. I asked my sister to put it in the mail, no rush.
Two days later, I received a very nice quality card with a hand written message from my sister with the item taped inside.
Mind you, I had to have someone read the message but it was a very sweet message and it touched me that she made the extra effort (even though I had to make an extra effort to get it!).
Do what you can. I think you can still buy greeting cards with a blank recorder thing inside if you need to personalize a message.
If you are printing out a note and feel it is inadequate since it is not handwritten, make it personal with the content.
Get a bunch of $2 bills at the bank and put one in each thank you to be unique. Add a Lifesaver, a mint, a condom, whatever. A $1 lottery ticket.
Yes, I understand the standard. Even if others don’t do it, it is your thing.
By a type writer.
Sure, it is much like a printer, but looks like it took you sometimes to do it.
You can also print in different scripts, even hand writing.
This is set in your word program, then when you send it to a printer, it looks nicer than just plain type script.
Add the nice stationary, and you’ve got a quality note.
Hire a student, or ask someone you think could write well, to do so, then sign it.
If your relative has forgotten you are blind, well, then won’t think, now, who wrote this?
If they remember you are blind, then a nice printed note, or even a nicely scripted email would fill the bill nicely.
You can change the script type of an email too, if you’re not familiar with this.
Just a few ideas.
Printing out a thank you card from the heart is better than not sending anything at all.
Hahahaha, love the way you wrote this.
I agree with Gregg and Lakeria. Most of my family doesn't much bother with the old-style hand-written thank-you cards. Even the ones that do are understanding that this is, at least for now, not really an option for me, and so understand when I give my thanks via a phone call where we usually get into a conversation and catch up, or a printed and mailed letter. They kind of have Lakeria's sentiment: sending thanks in whatever format works for me is better than not doing so at all. Unfortunately this seems to be what way too many blind people do, precisely because they think if they can't do it the formal way, they just won't do it. Having said that, I intend to follow this board, because I'm curious if you do get any answers about how to send thank-you's in the manner you're wanting to. I wish I had some real answers, but I've never figured out how to do this either.
I hate it when people tell me to write a sighted person a thank you note in braille, just for the novelty of them having something in braille. I've got no problem with writing thank you notes, but please, what's the point when they can't read braille and you're just gonna hand write whatever I say?
Install simulated braille on your computer and translate it with regular font such as Times New Roman. I did this once by hand and it made the recipient think I was trying to teach them how to read braille.
Or if your aim is to express your gratitude, offer your best penmanship and show them you put a little extra effort by signing it with a bloody thumbprint.
well, in this instance I was speaking more of sending thank you notes to
sighted people. And, honestly, it doesn't have to be for a present you received.
A dinner invitation, a party they hosted, staying over at their house for a couple
nights while you were visiting Detroit, all sorts of things call for gratitude. Now,
I think we all agree that a braille thank you card to a blind person is
appropriate. If a blind person does something to deserve thanks, we should
send a braille thank you card. But sighted people are different.
the best suggestion I've gotten, in private quick notes, was to get some nice
stationary, and adjust your printer so that it prints on that. Then use a fancy
font to write your note. Its not hand written, but it is pretty. I would add to that
idea that you should take a lot of time wording your message. if you cant write
it by hand, at least make it clear that you've spent some time on this.
I think I'm going to do this as soon as I can.
You don't even need to adjust the printer. Most new models will adjust themselves.
Lots of pretty script, and you can get others as well as downloads in your word program.
You can even choose the color of the script to match the stationary.
Speaking just for me, I hate getting cards.. I mean, the thought is nice, but honestly, I just throw them away after a while, unless they’re really, really unique. You wanna thank me for whatever it is that I did, a phone call is actually pretty nice, or if you really wannna go out of your way, a gift certificate to one of my favorite restaurants is actually something I can use. But if you wanna hold yourself up to a higher standard, which I guess I can see, then getting some blank thank-you cards that you can put into a printer and/or even one of those old electric typewriters works just fine. If you really, really wanna hold yourself up to the highest standard and your handwriting sucks ass, you can get a friend or some other relative to write it all out for you and then you’re set. But I’d say standards largely change, and in this era when everybody has better things to do than either send cards or read them, I’d go with the phone call or the email. It’s quick for you, and it’s convenient for everyone because they don’t have to throw something away later on. But then, I guess I’m matter-of-fact to a fault. Hell, this will tell you how things have changed. Nowadays my friends/family and I, if we have smartphones, will just send texts. Or, if someone gives us a gift out of the blue, there’s nothing for it but to return the favor with another gift. If you don’t know what to give as a return gift, ask the people who know them what they’d like. If you don’t know and they don’t know, then gift certificates or cards in a fancy envelope will work just fine. The person getting it may not use it for a while, but it’s practical, useful and odds are it won’t be tossed away because it’s a bit like extra money in the bank.
But that's obligation, not gratitude.
No, not always. Usually for me cards are obligation. A gift card, phone call, email, or some such thing is gratitude. Even my sighted family and friends say cards are good for sitting on the counter for a day or two, and then go in the trash when they keep getting in the way.
if you send me a pre printed thank you card with just your signature, I will not be impressed. that is a cop out for the lazy.
hall mark and stationers want us to believe that our expressions of gratitude must be on paper. jobe security.
email is fine. so is phone calling or texting. the important thing is that I received something, and I appreciate that you thought enough of me to give it to me.
besides electrons are less hazardous to the environment then is paper. also who wants to shell out the m oney to pay for a stamp?
See, if I had friends over for a poker night, I'd be ok with a phone call. we
spent a couple hours together, it was fine. if I threw an actual dinner party, or I
sent a gift, something like that, I expect more. Its good manners.
Also, what if its not gratitude you're sending? what if its sympathy? What if
isomeone passed away, and you're sending your condolances? Its best done on
something they can look at more than once. A phone call is what you do to
order pizza. That's not tangible.
I like to keep the textured Christmas cards and the musical ones.
Yes, people who have helped me with my track endeavors, especially my vision teacher's daughter got a simple text message from me because she sacrificed a lot of her personal time to help me. It was better than nothing at all. Like others have said, they will think that your card is thoughtful for 2 seconds, then throw that shit in the trash. lol I know because I've done it. Oh, and for the record, I don't want a card in braille. A small gift like lotion, lip bomb, or a blanket that is my favorite color is far more meaningful than what you're trying to do, but if it makes you feel better to send that card, go for it. I just hope you have a cute merry Christmas picture attached so that all of this hard work doesn't go to waste.
I'm not talking about christmas cards. I hate christmas cards. They say that
you went to walmart and spent five bucks. I'm talking about notes, not cards. A
note is something you write yourself, on good paper, that specifically says thank
you, or sorry about uncle jeff. A christmas card is a cheap piece of crap that has
a picture of a bear on it and says merry christmas. Not nearly the same things.
Now, if I'd been the one helping you with your track endeavors, and all I got
was a simple text message, I'd find you really rude and ungrateful. I probably
wouldn't want to help you with anything in the future. My German tutor, for
example, got coffee every time she met with me, and dinner at the end of the
semester, plus a thank you, and the money she was being paid by the school.
You didn't have to do all of that for your tutor. You just felt obligated to do all of that because she was getting paid to help you. It was not just something that she was doing because she felt sorry for you. And, I will disagree with you about my text message. I thanked her for specific things, and most importantly, I sent that text message. What would have been rude is not thanking the girl at all for helping me.
Once again, if I had sent her that card, it would have been in the trash because guess what Cody? She's moved twice since I've seen her. lol
Oh, and about that picture... I wasn't talking about going to the store and buying some whack ass Christmas card with cute elves on it. No, I was talking about maybe sending a cute picture of you and your guide dog or something... It would make your family smile and have an even better reason to keep your attempt at a sweet gesture.
Again, that's a christmas card. I'm talking about thank you notes. These are
not restricted to only christmas. They're just common during the holidays
because of all the gift giving. You can send thank you notes all year long,
whenever someone does something nice for you.
I have a lot of cards made by my puppy raiser with photos of my guide dog on them in various poses.
I use one of these.
I take a page of lamination paper, cut it down to size then braille on it with my slate and stylus. I then slap it on and send it off with an alphabet cheet sheet I either have on hand provided by someone or another or I wright it myself since I can wright...
They love it.
every time!
Forgot to add, I wright the thank you letter or whatever ever letter in grade one and keep it short. I also will call or text them to let them know I love the stuff.
You can use any card and even colored paper trimmed on the edges with edging scissors and add stickers or stick on juels...
I love to be crafty.
Sorry, I have more to say.
I will also wright on the blank side by hand but I do know how to wright. If it is really long though, I will print and tuck it in.
It all really depends on how your relationship is and what it is for.
A family member would send a cute card with a short message on it and a long letter printed and tucked inside.
Most people I know loves the braille even if it is just a little fraze.
nikki you arevery creative and that is great. since i have this craft impairment, if i did something like you described, it would never get done.
as i said before, email is fine with me. if they like it, they can print it off to save.
i have this dear friend who sends cards for everything. Christmas, thanksgiving, hallowene, easter, and holidays you have never heard about. she prints lovely messages after her signature in teeny tiny writing. people who have to read these say it is a real pain. so i have asked her nicely to print a message or even better call me. it just sails over her head.
oh and another type of correspondence that drives me bananas is the group Christmas brag letter. maybe you young people are smart enough not to send these. anyway it says stuff like "happy holidays from the roaming robertsons." then the reader is treated to page after page of how wonderful the family is how perfect their kids are all the money they are making and on and on. back when our children were little and you still had to pay for long distance, my husband said he'd much rather pay the phone bill and hear the voice he was sending the greetings too. so that is what we do. i figure if the person is my friend, i talk to them often enough. they probably know everything in that stupid form letter anyway.
the thing i do think is cool is a friend sent out a general Christmas email. although it was similar to a brag letter, it had links you could go to to hear the ocean, listen to the kids voices, and other stuff. that took a lot of time and was worth receiving.
I think there is some confusion. I'll explain.
A christmas card, or holiday card, is one of two things. One: a card you send
at christmas, usually attached to a gift, that can contain money and a short four
or five word phrase that boils down to merry christmas. Often it has a cartoon
of something cute. we've all seen them.
Two: a letter that is often handmade, contains a photo of family or something
else heartbreakingly adorable, and a message that one wishes to send to all of
the friends and family members in your life. It often contains lines about how
your daughter is doing in ballet, and how many medals your son won at his last
wrestling tournament. They're uniform, and sentimatmental. Neither of these
are what I'm talking about.
I am talking about a thank you card. This is a card, usually printed by hand
on a piece of stationary with a letterhead that you send to express either an
RSVP or your gratitude. Lets say, for example, that Lakeria allowed me to stay
at her house in New Orleans for the weekend, and showed me around. My thank
you card would go something like this:
dear Lakeria,
I am writing to express my gratitude for the use of your house during my
visit. I very much enjoyed the tour of New Orleans, and the open bar. The
dinner you cooked for me was delicious. You must send me your recipe for
sauted crocodile. I hope to have you over to my house very soon.
Yours most sincerely,
Cody
That's what I'm talking about. Christmas cards are lovely, but they're not the
same thing, and you can make them as crafty as you like. But that's not what
I'm wondering about here.
This has actually brought to light a completely different point.
I still possess my earlier sentiments, so I'll focus on the point I saw.
Cody, you said that if you helped someone out in a fairly meaningful way and didn't get some sort of personalized thank-you note, you may not help them again. You'd consider that person rude or whatnot. I understand this, but I think you're guilty of imposing your standards on others in a way which is not necessarily fair.
Your expectations here are not what I'd call global. The vast majority of people I know would not go to these lengths to thank someone. A few would, most wouldn't. Most would call, or send a nice email, or something along those lines. Now, that doesn't mean your expectations are invalid - you can expect whatever you please, so long as you understand you might not get it - but to then judge a person and to find them wanting? I think you're asking for a little trouble there. This is particularly true if the other person either does not know of, or does not share, your sentiments on that score.
Speaking for myself, I would think of a thank-you note, something written out and delivered by post, somewhat excessive. I would not turn it down, I wouldn't reject it, wouldn't ask you why you bothered. It just goes far beyond what I'd expect. To be frank, if I do you a favour, the thing I appreciate most is anything personal. Email me with a thank-you. Give me a call. If I'm in the area and the favour was particularly big, then invite me for a meal or send me a small gift if you want. All those things, I'll be over the damned moon about. I didn't, after all, help you expecting to be given something back. I helped you because you wanted to.
So for me at least, this tightly prescribed turn-and-turn-about series of expectations when it comes to someone doing you a favour sort of defeats the purpose.
All that being said, this is about you, so while I do have opinions about your stance, I guess they don't matter a ton. You have a few ideas to do what you wish to now.
I want to leave you with a question though:
Let's say somewhere down the road you do me some sort of favour. I dunno, maybe I'm in the States and crash at your place for a couple of days (just being lazy and using a similar scenario). On the one hand, I know you like a personal thank-you note of some sort. On the other hand though, what if somehow I didn't know that? Would you judge me and find me wanting if I sent you a small gift certificate for a store you liked, or called you to thank you, or sent you a really nice email that I clearly didn't just slap together in ninety-eight seconds? Would my not following your script suddenly mean that I was rude and insulting?
I get what Cody is aiming for here. No, it's not common anymore to send them, but it does show a certain high society manners that goes above and beyond the norm. I'm interested in this.
So how do we make this accessible for us but still meaningful? Cody doesn't want to use electronic means, but that's where society is heading. Someone mentioned a handwriting font in Microsoft Word. Are there several of those? Maybe you could have someone describe them, and then pick the handwriting font that best suits your personality.
Is there a way to imbed custom fonts into the text of a gmail message? I feel like I've seen that option for Outlook, but I only use that for work.
I don't like e-cards. I don't want to go to your spammy website to see this crap, and that's not what a thank you note is, anyway.
I don't want to open an attachment. That's extra work!
What about smart phone apps? Would there be something with stationery-textured backgrounds that allows you to write in handwriting style font? You could customize your background style and your writing style. Would that even be accessible?
I know e-mails seem cold and thoughtless, but I think you could put enough work into it to make it worth their while if there was a way to customize and make it look like a good quality, hand written note.
SL, send your thank you notes! Good manners shouldn't go out the window, just because times change and younger people weren't brought up to send a note or card. Advice columns are constantly full of people writing in, hurt that their gift or gesture seemed not to be appreciated. Yeah, these tangible notes and cards may go in the trash eventually, but the person who received them will know you cared to take the time, and the warm fuzzy feeling remains, even if the note/card doesn't.
Sure, perhaps getting a card means less to those of us who can't actually see to read them, but that wasn't the topic of this thread. Sounds like Cody's note is meant for a sighted person.
Sure, Gmail has them built in to the program.
This is done online, so when you are composing a message, you select what you with it to look like.
It is a setting, so you'll need to look for it.
I don't use Gmail, so I can't tell you exactly how to find it, but it is there.
Also, if you use, say Outlook to connect to Gmail, you simply design your message in it, and it will go.
The only issue, is your receiver might have his, or her program set to plain text, so your message gets all changed.
Most people do not, so you may be lucky and they'll receive exactly what you've sent them.
Sep, the person won't suffer, because they'll not know why Cody doesn't help them again.
If you know Cody, then you know his expectations, so you, if it matters, will take the time to thank him properly in the manner he would like.
The thing about thanking someone, if you, according to social standards, should do it properly when you know what they'd wish to receive.
You change according to whom you are thanking in these cases.
Laziness or your opinion is not an excuse for thanking someone you understand appreciates a hand written or as close to possible note on good stationary.
Greg, I'm sorry if I made this unclear. My problem with Lakeria's situation was
not that she didn't send a thank you note. It was that she sent a text for what
seemed a rather big bit of assistance. she was helped for olympic training, not, I
imagine, an easy thing to do, and she responded with a text. I've gotten texts
from Lakeria, and I did nothing to help her with her training. So how do I differ
from this lady who actually did help her if we both got text messages?
That's my major point. wE don't separate things anymore; by we I mean
society. Its all one. A text, a phone call, an email, a letter, who cares. Its all the
same thing, so long as the thing you want to say is said. I find this repugnant.
We've lost the art of actual communication. And I, for one, want to get it back.
I've started changing little things about my communication to make it more
clear that I value people. I start all of my emails with the word Dear, all of
them, without exception, and I close them with my name. I feel slighted when I
don't receive the same courtesy back. I'd love to start writing letters to people,
but so far I haven't done that, but perhaps soon. Now, i want to do thank you
cards.
HR:
My biggest problem with electronic means is not that you can't make them
appear nice and presentable. I'm sure you can do that easily, though I don't
know specifically how. My problem is more that they don't stand out. We receive
dozens of emails a day. some of them from coworkers, some from friends, some
from african princes, we get tuns of them. All we have to do is click on them,
they open, we read them, and with another click they're gone. I want something
tangible. I want a solid thing, something that isn't received every day. I want
the person I send this thing to to have the joy of opening a letter.
maybe I'm weird, I don't know, but I always got a joy out of tearing open an
envelope. am I the only one who feels that way these days?
VB:
Thank you. I'm glad other people understand what I'm going for. I think thank
you notes to blind people is rather self-explanatory. I have cards for such a
practice anyway. I use index cards since they're heavy enough to hold the
braille, and I write them with a slate and stylus. But this is not as good for
sighted people. They can't usually read braille, and want something visually
appealing. That's what I'm going for here. So far I'm still stuck on using a
printer, which is not a terrible idea if it works.
Shep.
Let me give you a crazy example.
Your friends a Jew.
You want to thank him or her, so you buy them a ham sandwich to show your appreciation.
Can you see the point?
Smile.
Wayne, that's potentially a bullshit argument though. It actually depends on whether or not the help was given when I asked, or given when I demonstrated that I needed help.
If I deliberately went to Cody (or stayed at his house or whatever, because I was heading that way), then you have at least a bit of a point. I still think that having to ask how someone wants to be thanked is awkward as hell, but hey ho.
But if it was something Cody helped me with and I didn't ask him, and now he's upset because I showed gratitude in a way he considers beneath him? Well, I hate to say it, but that's not necessarily my problem.
What it tells me is that you care more about the social dance than you do about my feelings. You are putting your own feelings (needing it to go a certain way) completely over mine (thanking you in a way that means a lot to me).
I have no problem whatsoever with others who want to go ahead and send personalized thank-you cards. The fact that it's not common shouldn't stop you, if it's what you want to do. But your desire to do that shouldn't generally dictate what the rest of us do.
And the ham-sandwich argument was written during my last post. It's an even bigger bullshit argument. If I'm going out of my way to thank someone, particularly with food, I'm going to ask them what sort of foods they do or don't like, or I'm going to already know it. But it probably wouldn't occur to most people to say "So okay, I really appreciate the help you gave me. Now, do you want a card in the mail, an email, a phone call, or what?" Having to ask that feels awkward, and it also sort of kills the spontaneity of the gesture in the first place.
I to like receiving thank you notes.
I also will take the time to actually mail, not email one out.
The problem, as I've stated with electronic, is you can never know what your receivers program is set to.
I do suppose, if you know your receiver can actually see what you've done, and your receiver understands you've done the best of your ability, this will be acceptable.
Here's the difference though Greg. A text shows zero effort. A call at least
shows some effort, though not much. A gift, a note, something like that, shows
actual effort. No, the person may not have picked that specific manner, but they
will appreciate the effort. Often, I find, when I receive a text as a thank you, I
give it as little thought as I do every other text I get. If I get thanked in a more
substantial way, I give more consideration to it. it means more to me, and that
is what we should all be striving toward with our gratitude. we should want it to
mean something, because we should actually mean it.
Agree completely.
An idea for you that wish to do this with your computers.
Call, or email the stationary shop you are going to buy your stock from
Ask, if they will suggest, and setup your personalized template.
This can consist of your font size, script type, color, margin spacing, signature, and paragraph style and spacing.
You can have letter head styling, or a salutation, so you have lots of variations.
Your template can be loaded on to a thumb drive for your operating system, then installed, or just used from the thumb drive.
If you are associated with a college, or have a library, these can be sources to get assistants.
Print shops can do this too.
Maybe a friend, relative or coworker will help.
Having a template gives you the comfort of knowing your notes will always be as you desire, all you need do it type in your messages.
Just some thoughts.
A couple things. I'm not disagreeing that mailed thank-you or sympathy notes are good things. I guess I don't feel it always has to be some pretty card. If I write a letter to someone and print it out on nice, or even normal paper, thanking them for something they've done, or expressing sympathy, and it's not some pat letter that I threw together, why shouldn't that mean the same thing as some visually pretty card that I had to have someone else help me write a one-line message in? The letter may not be as visually pretty, but it says what I actually want to say, therefore showing more of my heart of gratitude, or sympathy in it, than does the pretty card with the one-liner someone else had to write. If the person I'm thanking or expressing sympathy to cares more about the visual asthetics of the note than they do the heart behind it, that's on them and their shallowness.
Cody, I'm still disagreeing with you at least to some extent. And that's fine, disagreements happen all the damn time, but yeah.
If you did something nice for me, and I sent you a text that just said "hey man thanks", then okay, that's pretty fucking casual.
But what if I took the time to basically write you a letter via email? I am deliberately choosing my words, not just texting you, and I'm making an active point of explaining exactly how you helped me/exactly why I'm grateful, praising your aid and whatnot. What, seriously, is the difference between that and a card I have to send through the mail? They are both going to say exactly the same thing.
Are you suggesting that the act of writing out a letter, and then sending it via post, somehow validates the feelings that would otherwise not mean much? Are you further suggesting that a phone call, where you can actually hear how happy/pleased/grateful I am, would mean less because I picked up a phone and found your number and dialed it, vs. that all-important letter? I feel like instead of focusing on the content of the gesture, you're focusing on its difficulty as a measure of its viability. And that seems a bit screwy to me.
In a way, yeah Greg, kinda. But its not really the difficulty so much as the
unusualness. Phone calls, emails, texts, these are things we do all the time.
Hell, two of them, vbasically, you and I have done. Not a big difference between
texts and quick notes, phone and skipe calls, and we've done both. But a letter,
that stands out. That's unusual, so it stands out in my memory. That's what you
want, to stand out.
And no, certainly, there's nothing wrong with simple letters at all. If that's
your style.
I've heard from quite a few that the standards for manners, if you will have
changed. Manners are about showing consideration to the other person in a way
that's meaningful to them. Today, many people feel disconnected, and get a lot
of communications in some form of text. So people really do appreciate the
rare, almost extinct, phone call.
I've found a lot of people really do appreciate it. Maybe not young people, not
so much. But a simple phone call, thank them for the gift and express a bit of
interest in their life situation, and they are likely to take it very personally ... in
a good way.
See, that's my thing, Leo. I can understand why a simple text with not a lot of info might seem casual. But I actually treat a phone call/skype call at least a little bit seriously. I won't just up and skype absolutely anybody, particularly more than once. I am at least a little selective of who I talk to. Not quite so much with email though. A phone call lets you hear my voice, and lets me hear yours. It lets us connect in a pretty direct way.
For me, at least, you have three choices when it comes to showing your gratitude:
1. Do nothing, and that's self-explanatory
2. Do something particularly easy, like sending a quick text; this still does more than nothing, but it's not huge
3. Make a point of making your thanks stick. A phone call would do that for me. An email that wasn't just "hey man thanks", ditto. I don't need a card I can keep in order to prove to me that you gave a damn. You could've done nothing, but you didn't. You could've been casual, but you weren't. You did something to show your thanks.
So this is just a not-seeing-eye-to-eye thing, and I think I'm gonna bow out, as it's starting to get circular. My apologies, folks.
Everyne has their own standards Greg.
cody, in this age of computer access leveling our playing field I find it quite quaint that you want to take a step backward. how well I remember the days when I would get letters and a sighted person would have to read them to me.
when I write a thank you or a sympathy note, I think long and hard about what I am going to say. then I directly email the person. they can read what I said privately without having to use a scanner or have someone else intervene.
several times, you have said "I want what I do to stand out" or words to that effect. showing gratitude is the key here. making yourself look good is not.
there are many ways of expressing appreciation that are as meaningful as a printed note. these have been mentioned far better by previous participants.
take yourself out of the picture. figure out which one of these would mean the most to the person to whom you are expressing thanks.
Ok, so I've sent a lot of people thank you notes on the same plain, white paper, and more than likely 8 point font, and in addition, I've sent you text messages along with my mother Cody. So what's your point when you mention the fact that my text message thanking the girl for her time wasn't valid? Also, considering the fact that this was summertime, I didn't have access to a printer, and it would have cost me money to mail her something... I felt that this was better than nothing.
One more thing, I did not say that you could not send your cards to people, but as blind people, we have to go through a lot of work just for them to throw it away, and if you were to stay at my place any day, just send me a thoughtful text message, email, or just call me and thank me. I don't need some ridiculous card that I can't even see. lol :d
Guys, I'm not talking about sending them to blind people. I've said this. Blind
people, obviously, would not get a print thank you card or any other kind of card
from me. Of course they wouldn't. Most of my friends are not blind. I'm talking
about sending them to sighted people here, only sighted people.
And I think that the same would apply. Either way, seems like you have some cute options for what you want to do, so good luck with all of that.
I still stand on my previous reply.
I send them a card and thank them for whatever it was. I have yet had anyone be an ass enough to not appreciate my thank you card.
Whatever I send, all glittered up or just a simple cheep card. They always call me back and say they did not expect it and are over the moon they receive one.
Something like a letter, card however you can make it, counts.
The thank you is better than no thank you at all.
simple; If they have email, I email. If they have a phone, I call; If they don't have either, I'll have to print out a letter and send it.
That is all. Everyone knows what situation I am in.Nothing more needs to be said.
That actually reminds me of a question I meant to ask earlier. Why are we
seemingly ok to let our situation define us? we're blind, so we can't join in the
social conventions? That strikes me as kind of sad. I think they'd understand if it
wasn't written with a gold nibbed fountain pen, but does that excuse us
entirely? Where does that end? Are we going to say that its ok we didn't wear a
tie to the funeral, we're blind, people know our situation. Am I the only one very
much troubled by that idea?
Well, I do understand this.
Folks, this is how he wishes to do this.
I am easy. I can be thanked in any fashion, but if I had a friend like Cody, I'd send him what I feel he'd appreciate.
It's not the same Cody because everybody wears clothes, but since you don't have two eyeballs, then why should it be expected that you can write? That's like saying that everyone in the world can drive, so now as blind people we should be expected to drive as well.
No, I can't drive, but I should be expected to get myself around by myself
when I need to. Just like, I can't write, but that doesn't excuse me from good
manners. I can't, for example, see people chewing with their mouth open, is
that an excuse for me to chew with my mouth open? I can't see if soup has
dribbled down my tie, is that an excuse for me not to care? Yes, we may have to
find work arounds, but why do we ever use blindness as a cover all excuse?
Ok, you have a point. It's just, just printing something out and sending it off in the mail or just saying thank you in a phone call isn't good manners? I think this is what Greg was getting at. lol
That's the thing, we're at a bit of a questionable time when it comes to this
issue. I still think that gratitude should be special. To me, if I invited Greg over
to dinner, and he called me the next day to say thank you, I'd wonder why he
didn't just say that while he was there. If he sends a note a week later, then its
a thoughtful gesture that he went out of his way to do, and I'll appreciate it
more. It simply means more. But, we've become a society where nothing really
means anything, so sending a text to ask a girl on a date is acceptable now; not
to me mind you, but to some.
well if any good came out of this at all it is that I remembered to get my thank you letters together to ship out after work when I go out on errands, from all the birthday gifts I got last week.
Thanks.
cody, your ideas are archaic. nice but out of sync with the times. when I was agirl I went to deportment classes. what you are saying is true, but no one but a few people actually follow the rules you do.
maybe my friends are slobs. no one I know ever thanks anyone blind or sighted with a paper letter. they rarely do it with any of the other forms of communication. the fact that I send an email showing appreciation and gratitude is amazing to most of them. it is unfortunate, but most people were not raised as you were. n all tht aside, the "thank you" is imore important then how it was sent or presented. yes, I know you disagree. that's fine. just saying...
Asking people out by text seems to be how it is done now.
Heck, yopu don't even need to know then, nor have heard them speaking.
You swipe right on the pic, they swipe right to agree, and you start texting and in a few hours you'll be in bed.
Laughing.
Not for me, but.
I realize that my manners may be archaic in a lot of ways, but they still mean
a lot to me. So I'm going to hold on to them as long as I can.
For the record, if you did me a favour, Cody, I would thank you when it happened, plus I would go an extra mile and probably call you/write you a nice email. It wouldn't be an obligation, it would be courteous.
There's nothing wrong with archaic manners, as long as you realize that not everyone shares them. Holding other people up to that standard might be a little much, is all I'm really saying.
The original issue at hand, however, is in -you writing said note, so by all means, let your archaic manners run wild there. I wish you luck; hopefully something suggested herein will have helped you.
The reactions to this standard of manners is interesting here.
His manners, and not so long ago, or in some social circles even now, are the norm, or expected.
If you attend a wedding, the couple doesn’t text, call, or email you thanks for the gift, it is supposed to be written.
I personally do not attend weddings were everyone else has received a mailed, and formal invitation, but sense I’m blind, they just call me.
No, I want my written invitation.
I also expect to receive a note thanking me for my gift, not a call.
I want to add that note to the invitation, and keep these as mementos when the couple are my close friends.
Even if you use a tool, such as a computer to create your written thank you note, this is acceptable.
I don’t expect an answer, but I do wonder why manners is so looked down on?
Is it because you must get out of your comfort zone and do something you normally would not do
Your friend goes out of the way to do that favor, make that dinner, or your visit special, and you know they’d like written thanks, but you disagree and feel that call is well, and good enough?
The next time you visit, or go to that friend’s place, they don’t bother to make sure the sheets on the bed are fresh, nor the food served.
They just dig out some left overs, and allow you to sleep in the dusty sheets.
Well, they were clean, right, and I’d eat the left overs, so that should be well enough?
It was just Jane/John, and she/he doesn’t care about manners, so?
Just some thoughts.
cody, good for you for taking the time to do what you do. i' too busy and scattered to do it, buti admire you for holding up a standard.
as for wedding thank you notes here is a sad story. when I got married wa-a-a-a-ay back In '85 one weekend I sat down and did all 200 of mine. each was personal and individual. my oh my was I a proud puppy. then, someone looked at them and told me that the ribbon on my daisy wheel printer, remember those, had crapped out. Over 50% were illegible. grrrrrrrr!!!! needless to say that last half took a bit longer to send. so as I am writing this, I guess I can understand my aversion to written on paper stuff. enjoy your day.
I remember as Turricane does these things with print.
I don't think sighted or blind comes into this so much as gratitude, as people have said. And Turricane's point about thinking of the other person is really what counts. It matters not what standards I personally have for what I believe I should send someone. It matters whether or not I consider the most meaningful approach to the person in question. There are people I would send letters to, then there are people who would think I was just weird if I did. I'm far less concerned about preserving a cultural norm, and more concerned about doing whatever is meaningful to the other person.
Wow Cody, I don't give a rats ass (haha sorry) how I am thanked for things, or how I thank others; it's the thanking that's the thing here.
overboard much, as usual I say.
You may think whatever you wish.
I am the one who sends out birthday and thank you cards and letters. Rarely ever is it any one sending them to me but when I get one, it is nice. I try to remember and do it.
I am on top of sending out birthday cards and always get a call to thank me for gifts. I never once have received athank you letter.
I have let people stay with me on weekend for various reasons, 3 different people have lived with me for about 3 months eachwhen they needed a place to stay, I have helped and provided, gave and looked after many and I like I have said, have never received a thank you letter that I can remember, just a call and thanks as they walked out the door.
I have been taught by a great friend since I was young to wright thank you letters and have pushed others to do so in organations and activities I have help run. I feel like so many people do not do it and when it is done, people are taken back by it. It should be done.
I do what the person I'm sending it to would enjoy the most.
With my dad, we mostly text and call each other. We are both moving around a lot, and sending stuff in the mail just doesn't work for us.
With his wife, I know she really enjoys to both write, and receive letters. And notes like that are important to her, so I would send one.
I do like to receive cards when they are brailled. It does show that the person has really considered me, which is nice. I don't expect it however, it's just a really nice surprise if I get one.
One of the most wonderful things anyone ever did for me was when two of my
friends were getting married, they had the invitation specially brailled and
mailed to me. I loved that, because it showed they took time and thought of
me. Not because they knew I'd want that. I already knew I was invited to the
wedding, but it showed I was included.
How thoughtful!
My puppy's raiser has sent me a couple of braille cards, and it means a lot, since no one else ever does this, and I'm sure she went to some trouble even to figure out how to do this.
And on the topic of braille, I too miss receiving braille letters! Certainly there's no need, these days, with email and text, but nothing replaces a paper letter. It's the same pleasure I get from reading a braille book; slow down, forget the technology, and enjoy. But I don't have anyone willing to exchange letters with me. I sent one a couple of years ago, to a friend who I thought might get a kick out of getting one out of the blue, and she never even acknowledged receiving it. *sigh* But oh well. I wrote it in part for the enjoyment of writing with a slate, again.
The only problem I have with braille letters is that they're hard to fold without
erasing the braille.
Not at all.
Fold the paper first in the manner you want.
Now unfold it and write your letter, you just skip the lines where the folds are.
Now you can fold it back up and the braille is not damaged.
Hmm, good idea. Wish I'd thought of that as a kid when I sent braille letters to
my childhood girlfriends.
I remember these.
Probably the worse letters in the land, but sincere.
Yep, fold the paper first.
Heh, I'm sure I'd cringe at some of the letters I wrote, as a teenager! Too bad I don't have any of them. I destroyed my journal from that time, too.
Fold the paper first or use the larger envalopes. I have done both.
I had a friend send me a braille card this year, and she also got some braille gifts to give me. So nice of her.
I have had a few people send me braille cards.
My sister tries to get her kids to wright to me for fun but they get to crazy involved and my niece gets upset if she does it wrong and won't send it. lol
I am still waiting on my birthday card from her because she used the slate wrong and wrote on the outside of the card. I told my sister to just fold it inside out and tell her I wouldn't know anyways what way the card went just to calm her down for now.
its too funny.
I've been trying for years to find a journal that could be written in braille. I'd
love to find a moleskin or a leather one, but so far no luck. None that was any
good anyway. I love the thought of journaling in braille. If you come across
anything like that, or know of anything, let me know please?
silver lightning, you can get a nice notebooklike a trapper keeper that has the zipper around it or the Velcro. then punch a bunch of paper and put it In their. voila. you have a journal.
I'm so glad you appreciated the braille wedding invitation. when my husband and I got married, I brailled the program for the guests who were blind. even put in stuff like descriptions of the flowers and dresses. also brailled the invitations. got absolutely zero thanks. at the time of our wedding my mom was dying of ovarian cancer so this was a big effort in time and energy that I decided to take. although it wasn't acknowledged I know I did the correct thing.
I thought about that, but that doesn't have the same elegance as a moleskin
or leather journal. Unless I found a leather trapper keeper, but those things
kinda scream middle school.
Silver, perhaps you could look for someone who does book binding and ask how binding Brailled pages would be done (as in, Braille pages first and then bind or bind then Braille).
I had a nice book with blank pages and just wrote sideways on it with my slate. It was smaller but you could try.
If it is wide enough for a slate you can use one or there are even index slates that opens, they are shorter.
I've used that method before. I didn't find it to be very comfortable. I'll just
have to keep fiddling with it.
You can buy slates that have more lines, like I think 12 that are also short like the pages.
You still have to write sideways, but you can fill a page and not move the slate.
Now, you can buy a regular book with thick pages and just braille on them.
You can get a braille book blank with the binding that has a note book like style to it with the many strips. It will allow you to remove pages and add them back in. The only thing is that you would have to remove most of them to add one back in unless you kept all your blank pages to the side and added them in as you wrote on them.
I do understand your desire though. I wanted to wright one too growing up but never found the bulky braille options satisfying. The printed way seemed more confirting.
I wonder if I could find a nice, leather or moleskin sleeve of some kind to put
a three ring binder in, then use hole punched braille paper and just put it in the
three ring binder? I bet someone makes that, right?
I never got a Braille letter or card till my parents-in-law who figured out how to send a Braille birthday card from Hallmark, I think it is. Every year, I get one. It's really very nice.
And I know this sounds weird since I'm not the social networking generation. But when I get "Happy birthday" wishes on my Facebook wall, which I can read for myself, I really appreciate it.
Before the Internet, I really didn't know many blind people, and none really personally so would not have even considered the idea of getting any Braille in the mail that didn't come from NLS or something.
The Facebook bit really shows, though, how it's the very idea of being considered and in a way you can know about.
Sure. You can even get the heavy paper already punched.
Here's the thing, it doesn't have to be braille paper, so can be nicer feeling, or looking.
Go to a office supply, or stationary store. You'll find what you are looking for.
Oh the paper is the easy part wayne. That part I"m not concerned with in the
slightest. its the actual book itself. If I could find a way to have the ease of
writing by hand, with a slate that is, on a single sheet of paper, then put that
piece of paper into a nice journal that I wouldn't feel like a middle schooler on
his way to english if I carried around, I'd be very very happy. That would be the
best of both worlds for me. So, a leather binder with braille/heavy paper which
can be removed. That's what I'm looking for. I bet it exists.
I forgot to add.
You can order the binder, or book custom.
Example, maybe you want red leather, and your name in gold script on the cover.
Date, my diary, like that.
Nice idea, a custom cover in leather! I never thought of it, I just used regular notebooks, which do look pretty tacky. As a teenager, I was always envious of my sister who could use a standard tiny journal type book, easily tucked away, with a lock. NO such luxury, with Braille--no need for it either, really, which is certainly an advantage sighted people do not have!
yesterday, I went to a local place where artisans show their stuff and I saw just what you might want. put in your request on googoe. you could very well find a leather worker who will be able to do what you want.
I actually have a leathermaker friend. He usually does historical objects for
reenacters, like hunting pouches and cartridge boxers, but he might be able to
do something like what I want.
Scrap booking. I have a scrap book I am wanting to work on but to blind to do it myself. UGH!
But you can get a scrap book if your not going to have your friend make you one and you can add in and remove pages as you wish.
See if there are any like you want.